Episode 368: Devorah Baum
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Love and Quarrels: The Unseen Sides of Marriage
Ever wondered why marriage, one of the most common themes in literature, is largely ignored by philosophers? What about the complexities of present-day marriages, with political differences, and even the dynamics of arranged marriages today?
Devorah Baum is a Professor of English at the University of Southampton, a filmmaker, and the author of several books. Her latest book is called, On Marriage.
Devorah and Greg discuss the insights of philosophers like Kierkegaard and Nietzsche who saw marriage as an obstacle to philosophy. They also examine the post-nuptial life depicted in Beckett's works and the story of Scheherazade in A Thousand and One Nights. Greg asks Devorah about romcoms, the role of parenthood in marriage, and the rise of pornography. This episode promises a wealth of insights into the institution of marriage.
*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*
Episode Quotes:
The hidden economics of marriage
19:31: Marriage is about marshaling a certain kind of resources. It's about orderly inheritance. It's about making sure that what the state would have to pay for, like the labor of social reproduction, is made private, brought indoors, and a lot of care work that goes on there, and so on. And then you overlay that with the language of love, altruism, and duty in the family, and you get away with stuff. So we can see that these are the conditions that have allowed. The private life of the marriage to keep the state or society well-oiled and running without having to pay some people or even recognize their labor because it's what they want to do naturally, and so on, and that's love.
One of the great malaises of contemporary culture is self-righteousness
48:13: One of the great malaises — I would even say diseases — of contemporary culture is a culture of self-righteousness, of people feeling that they have to be right all the time and about everything. And I think there's no pleasure in it. They can be reminded by these cultural productions that being in relationships with others isn't about being right all the time. In fact, you can't be, and just to be in perpetual agreement with the people you hang out with isn't to be in any relationship at all.
Why do our romances imagine two against the world?
07:31: Our dream and our great romance of love is Romeo and Juliet, whose love affair is incompatible with a sanctioned, approved marriage. They marry, but the world doesn't approve of their marriage. And so they die, as though that marriage has no future, that love. And so I think something about our idea and our dream of love is distrustful of marriage because marriage, to be successful and to be sustained, is the sort of third. The world says, "Yes, you two can be together. We can get along with you." The world gives its blessing to the couple and says, "Yeah, we can work with you." So, something about that pollutes the ideal purity that the lovers imagine they have with each other, sort of two against the world. And that is our vision of romance.
Why are conflicts sometimes beneficial to marriage?
40:41: In the romantic mythos, we have this idea, this dream of marriage where you can be opposite, and you can make peace with your differences. Sort of, the conclusion of a romantic comedy, ideally, or the kind of romantic comedies I have, is not one where there was a master-slave sort of battle going on, and then eventually one triumphed, and the other one said, "No, you were right all along, and I was wrong all along." What makes it feel romantic and alluring is that we imagine the argument continuing after the wedding, too, because we saw how much pleasure it brought them beforehand. So you can make peace with your differences, which isn't a piece that doesn't have conflict in it, but it's a piece in which the conflict can be not only endured but to some extent enjoyed and is a source of respect and mutual education and, indeed, edification.