Episode 399: Nicholas Epley
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The Science Behind Human Connection and Engagement
Have you ever considered the transformative power of a simple hello or the profound effect of asking someone about their day? Why might our attempts at perspective-taking be inadequate compared to the straightforward solution of ‘just ask.’
Nicholas Epley is the John Templeton Keller Distinguished Service Professor of Behavioral Science, and Director of the Roman Family Center for Decision Research, at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. He is also the author of a book titled, Mindwise: Why We Misunderstand What Others Think, Believe, Feel, and Want.
Nicholas and Greg discuss how social nuances influence every aspect of our lives. Nicholas’s expertise, combined with Greg’s teaching experiences, bring to light the nuanced dance of cross-cultural social engagement and the impact of technology on our interactions. This episode isn't just about making more friends or being likable—it's about harnessing the often overlooked science of social cognition to enrich every interaction you have. Discover why the 'superpower' of social cognition might be the most underutilized tool in your personal and professional arsenal.
*unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.*
Episode Quotes:
Conversation is an entirely cooperative process
16:25: Conversation itself is just an entirely cooperative process that tends to pull us together with somebody else. So, for us to have a conversation, we have to start by establishing some common ground with each other, figure out what we're going to talk about.That's inherently cooperative. We're going back and forth. We're taking turns. We're cooperating, right? And cooperation tends to pull people together. Reciprocity is, without question, the dominant social norm in social interaction. So, if I were to punch you in the face, you would probably punch me in the face back, right? That'd be a bad interaction. But if I reach out and say hello to you with sort of authentic kindness, you tend to respond back in the same way. And, it's those iterative social processes—those complicated social processes—that people tend to really underestimate the power of.
Deep talk is better than small talk, but small talk is better than no talk
25:43: Small talk is better than no talk in a given moment; deep talks are a little better, or not as bad as you might think it is. But when you see people reporting that having a really deep conversation with somebody is better than a shallow one, it's typically when they have both and can compare them on their own; the small talk is actually pretty good.
How our social thinking keeps us from getting feedback
07:50: I think a bigger problem with a lot of our social thinking is that it can create reality, which then keeps us from getting the feedback we need. So Greg, if I thought you wanted to talk to me, I'd have a conversation with you, and I'd figure out if that assessment was right. So I'd get feedback on that because I would approach you and would find out if we're in a coffee shop, I didn't think you want to talk to me or didn't look very interesting, whatever. I decided, nah, I'm not going to have this conversation. Notice I wouldn't have anything to learn from. So when it comes to social thought, sometimes, particularly when it's about whether doing engage with somebody to connect with somebody or not, our beliefs are self-fulfilling, and they can keep us from getting the feedback we need.
The truth about our fear of social engagement
28:05: Our fears about how social engagement is going to go, particularly when it's positive, just tend to be a little off, a little overly pessimistic, in part because we don't seem to fully appreciate that when you reach out positively to others, they tend to reach out positively to you in return, and people are happier to be seen and have somebody take some notice of them. That's just very powerful—surprisingly powerful.